2nd Breakfast: An Affordable, Quality Board Game Table

Created by Wooded Realms

An affordable, practical, fully featured board game table. 100% hardwood, now available in two sizes! Ships to US & Canada

Latest Updates from Our Project:

The End of Wooded Realms, Part II
about 3 years ago – Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:03:45 PM

Hello Backers~

TL;DR - WR is shutting down; Tables are coming to the US

Let me give you the TL;DR version first:  I will soon cease to act as a representative of Wooded Realms.  The Wooded Realms company will be dissolved.  A new company will be paying for the inventory in China as well as paying for freight shipping and customs tax to bring the existing tables and chairs to the US.  The new company will make half of the tables available to backers and pre-orders at a severe discount.   The remaining tables will be sold Direct at retail prices.  The retail sales revenue will pay for the production of more tables, and every run will have tables set aside for backers and pre-orders.  Information about ordering tables will be available this week.

Please read on for the long version.  ~N


From Wooded Realms: WR Shutting Down & The New Co.

I want mainly to get everyone up to date on where we are with the transition.  As mentioned in the last update, the company "Warmwood LLC," which was wholly owned by Michael, has abandoned its responsibilities completely.  I've been acting as representative of the company without pay for over a year.  I did not receive the money that came from the Kickstarter or BackerKit funding, except as an employee.  Based on my ability to view (but not withrdraw, transfer, or otherwise access) Warmwood's only bank account, there is no money; the account balance is negative.  Shipping costs, accessory costs, anything that was given to the company before this point is gone.  The funds received until this point have been lost, fairly or unfairly, to the US- and Chinese-based companies (both called Warmwood) that Michael owned.  I could not continue with this company if I wanted to; so I am taking a final responsibility as General Manager to administratively dissolve the company.

What does this mean for backers and anyone who paid for anything?

Well, unfortunately it means that you will not be receiving your pledge rewards, and you will not be receiving any refunds from Warmwood LLC.  Unless Michael returns and begins offering refunds for pledges, products, shipping, or anything else, this dissolution will be the end.  For those of you who wish to attempt to locate Michael, I will be preparing a letter with Michael's information that I will share with anyone who wants it.

What Is the New Company?

The new company is AnotherIndustries LLC, and it is my company.  The LLC was formed in my name, and is wholly owned by me; I'm currently the sole owner and employee.  I have taken a substantial personal loan to infuse AI LLC with enough money to pay the outstanding invoice for the "100 tables" and chairs that have been sitting, completed, in China for almost a full year.

The tables and chairs are now here in Seattle.  I personally oversaw their delivery to a warehouse in Tacoma, and have taken a few tables to review the contents and quality in detail.

How Are the New Companies Related?

They are not related.  However, there is an agreement between Warmwood LLC and AnotherIndustries LLC, and it looks like this:  Warmwood LLC will be making settlement offers to any individual who gave money to the 2nd Breakfast Kickstarter or directly to Warmwood LLC.  That offer will take the form of an exclusive, non-transferable reduced price for a table or chair sold directly by AnotherIndustries LLC.  This price will determined not by profit, but by avoiding losses.  Additionally, customers who take up the offer to pay for a table will receive an exclusive discount for any other tables or accessories that is equivalent to the money they paid for their table, as a way to give back the money they had to put forward to receive a table.

From AnotherIndustries: How Tables Will Be Distributed

I have two main goals right now.  First, I want to demonstrate that these tables are actually here, in the US, in Washington State, and if you pay for a table through the agreement between Warmwood LLC and AnotherIndustries LLC, then you will actually receive a table.  Second, I want to gauge interest in Warmwood LLC customers in participating in this offer.  I plan to make up to 50 tables available via the agreement, and if more than 50 people want to take me up on this offer, then I will have to prioritize.  AI's plan is to continue to make half of all tables produced available via this agreement until everyone who wants a table can get one.

Why Can't You Just Give Me My Table?

Mainly because I don't have enough money to do it.  If AnotherIndustries LLC was able to secure a larger loan, or find investors, then it may have been possible to make such an agreement.  But AI's runway is very short, and we simply don't have enough money to offer tables for free.

Why Can't You Just Sell All 100 Tables to Us?

It again falls to the amount of money available to AI.  The ability to pay for the next 100 tables to be produced is dependent on revenue from the first batch of tables.  If these tables don't sell, then the company will run out of money, and that will be that.

What About Shipping?

Since shipping will be handled by a third party company, customers will need to pay for shipping (even if they already paid for shipping as part of the Warmwood LLC Kickstarter or by direct sales).  It comes down again to the amount of money available to AI, and it is a cost we can't absorb.

Can I Come Pick Up My Table?

YES!  If you want to avoid shipping charges, you will be able to pick up your table.  Currently we only have tables located in the Seattle-Tacoma area.  Unlike Warmwood, AI will not be charging a handling fee for pickups.  Additionally, if you live in the Puget Sound, we can arrange for delivery.  Doing this will cost less than standard shipping because we have partnered with a furniture delivery company, and can consolidate several deliveries over the course of one day to keep costs down.

What About Chairs?

Chairs were also included in AI's purchase.  They will be offered at exclusive prices via the same agreement as the tables.

I Didn't Pledge For or Buy a Table, I Wanted/Bought Something Else

For backers who pledged for accessories like the Dice Tower, Token Holder, or other things, we don't currently have those items available.  Our current plan is to offer these backers a discount code equivalent to any money they gave to the 2nd Breakfast Kickstarter or directly to Warmwood LLC.  EG if you pledged and gave $60 in the Kickstarter campaign, you'll receive an exclusive discount equivalent to the $60 your pledged.

Is This Just For Backers?

The agreement covers all of Warmwood LLC's backers as well as customers who pre-ordered tables and did not receive a refund.  If you pledged on Kickstarter or pre-ordered via the website, you will be eligible for this offer.

I Don't Want This, What Else Have You Got?

We (AI) are planning to reserve the right to change the offer.  If AnotherIndustries meets or exceeds our target sales, then we have the option to lower the exclusive offer price.  If you wait, that price may drop, and if we can offer it, we will offer it to everyone.

Part III is Next

Our next step is to set up the ability for backers and purchasers to reach out via a new channel of communication.  Since this Kickstarter is for the Wooded Realms tables, once Warmwood LLC is dissolved as a company, there will be no further communication here.  I'll post information about how you can be part of that next stage in the coming weeks.


~Nathan

Former GM, Wooded Realms

The End of Wooded Realms, Part 1
over 3 years ago – Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 11:03:19 PM

Hello everyone~

I apologize for such a long delay between updates.  As some of you may know, I was fielding some questions on the Discord for awhile, but have been silent for over a month.

Things are still not finalized, but I think it's safe to share with you that Wooded Realms as a company is closing.  Michael, the owner of that business, hasn't responded to my requests, and it is time to dissolve the company.  As part of this, I will be acting again as an agent for the company, settling the company's obligations as part of the legal "winding down" process.  This means that for anyone whose money was accepted by Wooded Realms will shortly (likely within 2 weeks) receive an official notification, as well as information about submitting your claim, settlement offers, and other details.

I want to be clear about two things.  First, Wooded Realms, the LLC, has no money at all.  The bank account is negative, and backers that have attempted chargebacks have put the company's stripe account balance to around -$14,000.  There are no assets held by the business.  This is a bad situation for everyone, but we have to handle it via the proper channels in order for things to move forward.  Second, I am not going to be abandoning the backers here.  I can't say much more than that, but along with the notification, you will have options to try and get something out of the wreckage of this Kickstarter.

I hope everyone has a safe holiday, and I hope you will look forward to the next update, where I can share some more positive news with everyone.

~Nathan

The September Update | Sample Giveaway Pt. II
over 3 years ago – Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:48:46 PM

Hello everyone~

I want to apologize for setting some bad expectations for many backers.  In discord, and other online messaging systems, it has been made very clear to me that some people were expecting explicit details about how to buy the inventory held by the factory, or how to contact Michael, or even that I might just sell an individual table to someone.  Unfortunately, I feel I may have created an expectation that I would just dump a bunch of information out for anyone to take advantage of, and just walk away.  This will not be the case.

Even though I am no longer a paid employee of Warmwood LLC, I still want the best outcome for the most people who have been impacted by this situation.  Obviously for legal reasons I can't make promises or commit to certain outcomes, but I will continue to act in a way that leads to an outcome that benefits as many backers as possible.  To that end, I apologize to anyone who thought I would simply share the details that would allow them to buy tables out from under the many backers of this Kickstarter.

So What's Taking So Long?

Thanks for asking!  I am currently either engaged in, or scheduled to engage in detailed discussions with experienced legal, business, and ethics mentors about how to best serve the backers.  This process was brought in after I began talking about selling the 100 tables.  And what has happened is I've learned that certain steps need to be taken to protect both myself and backers.  But this information does not come without cost.  In my case, I am looking at State of Washington programs and mentors to help me navigate this situation, and I am therefore beholden to their schedules.  So that is what is leading to the delays that we are experiencing now.

You're just trying to cover your own butt.  I don't care about that!

Well, you're not wrong.  But one important consideration is that I'm not just trying to act in a legally safe manner.  I'm also learning how I can continue to help everyone get the best possible outcome.  Let me give you an example.

If, as so many backers have asked recently, I were to simply share the name and contact information of the factory that has produced the 100 tables, then anyone with the available cash could buy those tables, have them shipped to the US, and sell them at a 200%-500% markup.  Such a business wouldn't even have to sell them to backers.  Anyone with the cash could buy these tables.

I know it often comes off as a marketing term, but the sheer value of the tables, their quality, and the included accessories, when compared to the existing market, could be sold for over $2,000 and still be considered a bargain.  Anyone ruthless enough and savvy enough could buy these tables for a fraction of that price, and sell them at a huge markup.

By waiting to speak with Washington state mentors, I am doing my best to ensure that these tables will go to an entity that will do right by us and get tables into the hands of people deserving of them, both legally and ethically.

I simply ask that you wait just a while longer.  I have one meeting this week, and a second in early October.

But We Already Have A Company or Group Interested In Making the Purchase!

That's fine!  Just have your representative (or if you are an individual) contact me, and I will go over the necessary terms of an arrangement.  Just be prepared that the terms may change as I speak to and learn more from legal counsel, mentors, and others with more experience.  Remember, we are all working to find the best possible outcome for you.

Ok.  But What's Going on With You (FREE SAMPLES)?

I'm so glad you asked!  Now that my personal issues have settled down and I'm back in town, I really want to get rid of the final samples that are available.  I'm going to set up time this coming Saturday, 09/19, for folks to come get these samples.

As before, remember that these tables are NOT representative of the final tables.  They are broken, made out of different wood, not nearly feature complete, and generally suck.  I would encourage you do only consider coming to pick one up if you are looking for spare Poplar or Beech wood, or are curious about the evolution of the 2nd Breakfast table. Also, DO NOT email me if you are more than 1 hour drive from North Seattle.  I do not want you driving 5 hours to get a bunch of kindling.

I will also share lots of fun details about my time with Wooded Realms and my life before WR if you're interested.  More importantly I have lots of extra furniture blankets to help with moving, so there's that as well.

Email [email protected] with the subject line "SAMPLES" before Wednesday 11:59PM PST and I'll send everyone who wants to know more on Thursday.

What About Refunds or Chargebacks?  How Can I Get My Money Back?

I'm sorry.  I want to be very clear with you.  Regardless of what you think about me or the company or anything else, the fact is that Warmwood LLC has no liquid or fixed assets.  I know this because I have access to the only bank account for Warmwood.  As I have said before, you can email me and request to be added to the refund list, which I will track and hopefully be able to do something about in the future.  If you attempt a chargeback or credit card dispute, you'll be added to the list of people who have done the same, but I did receive confirmation from Stripe that those requests are only being paid out if the account is brought positive.  And, as I've said before, a chargeback request will be considered your definitive attempt to receive a refund, and you will not be added to my list.

So ultimately, I will continue to fight to give consumers without chargeback requests the best possible outcome; I consider those people to be in the same boat as me.  I have been very blessed to find that most people have been empathetic, even supportive of the position in which I find myself.  If you are one of those people, you have my eternal thanks, and I will continue to fight to find the best possible outcome for you and me.  If you're not, I only ask that you try not to let your anger lead to a situation that prevents everyone else from getting the best possible outcome.  We all want the best outcome for the most people, so please consider that!

That's it for now, thanks everyone for reading carefully and responding respectfully!

~Nathan

The 100 Tables FAQ
over 3 years ago – Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 06:37:19 PM

Hey folks~

Wow, lots of responses to yesterday's post!  I have received dozens of emails from backers interested in learning more about the 100 tables.  So here is a consolidated FAQ of everyone's questions.

I realize I did not provide a ton of information, so there are some misconceptions.  The furniture company that built the tables (referred to going forward as "company in China") is a large manufacturer, and completely separate from Warmwood.  They built the tables on request.  This means there are some very important distinctions, which I will cover now:

  • It is Warmwood LLC's goal to complete the payment of this invoice.  Since Warmwood has not yet paid for the work that was done in a reasonable amount of time, the company may try to recoup their investment by selling the tables to any customer who will pay the invoice.
  • This means that any one person or group would be responsible for paying the invoice, paying for and handling the shipping costs, tariffs, procurement fees, warehousing, and any other costs involved with receiving one or more shipping containers worth of wood products shipped from China.
  • This also means that whatever person or group does make this purchase has full ownership of the tables.  Warmwood LLC would not have any claim to those products, and therefore would not able to use those products to fulfill their obligations.
  • In other words, if the company in China were to sell these tables to another person or group, it would be entirely up to the person or group who paid for the tables to decide what to do with them.  They may choose to sell the tables to people who backed this Kickstarter or pre-ordered the tables at cost.  They may choose to put up their own website and sell them as Brand X tables.  They may choose to toss them into a wood chipper, or donate them to charity.  The tables will fully belong to whomever pays the bill.

So, I hope that makes things a bit clearer.  Since this update is part of the Wooded Realms Kickstarter, I would not share more details about the company in China here.  I will say that, as a person with visibility into Warmwood's US accounts, and who has been attempting to contact Michael since March of this year, I have almost no confidence that Warmwood will be able to pay this invoice.  And, as I mentioned yesterday, anyone who is interested in knowing more or understanding the situation better can email me to request clarification or provide information about any person or group who may be trying to pay this invoice.

Now having said that, I will go through and answer questions from backers about the 100 tables.

FAQs about the 100 tables

Q.  How much is owed to the company in China?

A.  I can't get into specifics, but the amount owed is essentially the production cost of a table x the number of tables.  If you know how products tend to be priced in relation to their production cost, then you can surmise generally what it would be.

Q.  Are the tables the full table?  How completed are they now?

A.  I would say the tables are 97% complete.  the wood work, staining, packaging, etc are done, but playfields and possibly some other small components are not complete.

Q.  How much is shipping/tariffs/etc?

A.  Tariffs change, but the shipping would be a standard full size container cost, which is typically between $2,500 and $3,500 per container.  One wrinkle is that this does not include "last mile" shipping, meaning the cost to get the table from the warehouse to your front door.

Q.  What is the timeframe?  Are they ready to ship now?

A.  The tables are basically ready to ship now.  There are considerations like what shipping space is available, what ports are open, and time to get the container from the factory (in the middle of China) to the port, etc.  But once the invoice and shipping costs are paid, things would move quickly.

Q.  Once the invoice is paid, what kind of assurance is there that we will actually get the item?

A.  Once Warmwood pays the invoice, there are still other financial considerations.  Since I only have a view into the US account balance, and that balance is negative, there are several considerations; how would Warmwood pay tariffs, and port release fees, how much would it cost to have the tables delivered from the port to a warehouse, how much would the warehouse cost, and how much would it cost to pay for tables to be delivered.  Those are all cost considerations that need to be taken into account in addition to paying the invoice.

Q.  What happens if another group or person buys the tables besides Warmwood LLC?

A.  That group or person would have the same cost considerations described above.  Unfortunately for Warmwood LLC and the backers/pre-orders, if this happened, Warmwood would not have ownership of the tables.  It would be up to the group or person who bought the products to decide what to do with them.

Q.  How many of each type of table (color/size/etc) are in the 100?

A.  I do not have the detailed list, the company in China is holding it as part of the invoice.  It's possible Michael has a detailed list, but he is still unresponsive.

Q.  Do the Tables include Leaves?

A.  Yes.

Q.  What about chairs or accessories?

A.  There are chairs and some accessories that have been produced.  I saw them when I visited in person last December.  However, I don't have a price or quantity for those items just yet.

Where We Stand
over 3 years ago – Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 03:14:11 PM

Hello again everyone~

Apologies for the two week silence.  I again went to Yakima to handle some family matters, but I'm back now for the next month at least.  We've also hit some major milestones in terms of the project, and that means I have some updates for everyone.

Michael Is Still MIA

The biggest issue is that Michael is still not responding to messages.  One big development is that we have had a chance to speak with family members and Dongsifu about Michael.  While Dongsifu did not have a lot of information, he was able to confirm that Michael was having multiple financial issues, including his venture capital group doing poorly, and his funds being lost.  A family member also confirmed that he is unable to secure more funding from the bank.  It seems he is in the midst of a financial meltdown, caused by the economic changes in China after the pandemic.  The long and short of it is that I don't think Michael will be able to do anything to do clear Warmwood LLC's obligations.

The Shift Away from Warmwood

At this point, I can no longer consider myself a representative or Warmwood or Wooded Realms.  This doesn't mean that I will stop posting updates.  This means that I am now actively seeking my own restitution from Warmwood, just like everyone else.  I know that some backers are already looking at their options.  I am available to share what information I am allowed to share to assist with those options.  The main difference going forward is that I feel I can't speak on behalf of the company Warmwood or Michael, as I have no way of getting direction or information from him, and of course I have not been paid or employed for most of the year now.

As for what might happen next, I am at a loss.  I am hoping to be made whole, and I am hoping for all of you to be made whole. As I mentioned, I will still be here to answer questions and provide information.  

What About the 100 Tables?

If any of you are interested in trying to raise funds to purchase the remaining 100 tables in China, I can help you get in touch with the company in China that has the tables.  After reviewing for legal issues, it seems that the tables can be purchased by anyone willing to pay for them, however the company will not hold on to them forever.  If you want more information, email me, [email protected].

For now, this is all the news I have.  I will continue to post regular updates, and respond to the current emails.  I am still tracking individuals who have requested refunds, as well as those who have attempted chargebacks.

I hope you are all doing ok, and I will talk to you again soon.

~Nathan