June Update, Part 3
almost 4 years ago – Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 07:15:37 PM

Hello Again...

Today's update is another collection of questions and requests for information that has cropped up in the comments as a response to Updates 1 and 2.  Today's update comes largely thanks to Bruce, who asked some very pointed questions, and has taken an active role in the comments!  Instead of doing another Q&A, I'll be peppering his questions in when relevant.  I've also got some thoughts of my own to share.  So let's go.

RE: Sharing Information

If you've been following the comments, you probably already know what I'm going to post here, but I think it is important enough to bear repeating again.

I've noticed some backers are requesting information from other backers in an effort to build a clearer picture of the Wooded Realms timeline (particularly with regards to finances). I see that this is an important metric for many people who want to know, especially folks who got tangled up in locked PMs and subsequent charges. I will address that later in the update.

Backers are welcome to exchange and share information. HOWEVER! I am extremely uncomfortable with backers posting financial details or other PII in a public forum. I won't ask anyone to stop requesting information from other backers, but I do ask that if you want to compile information from backers, please follow these guidelines:

• ONLY request information from a fellow backer here on the Kickstarter Platform
• DO NOT ask backers to provide detailed information publicly as a comment. Unfortunately Kickstarter does not have a backer-to-backer Private Message function, so I cannot provide a good solution here
• ABSOLUTELY DO NOT request Personally Identifiable Information (PII). This includes things like your real name, location, email address, anything that might be used to identify you or your account information.
• Before you request any information, please check to see whether such requests, posts, or invitations to share information outside of Kickstarter's platform violate any of Kickstarter's terms.

If you you are a backer and you want to share information to help build a clearer picture, you are welcome to do so, but please follow these guidelines:

• DO NOT share any PII (name, address, email, etc). If you are unsure if something is PII, err on the side of safety and do not share it
• When sharing financial details, consider limiting your info to whole dollar amounts only, or maybe even round up/down to the nearest $5 or $10. Exact amounts can be used in instances of fraud
• EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION if asked to share details anywhere other than Kickstarter
• DO NOT provide any additional information beside what has been requested here publicly
• Before you share any information, please check to see whether such requests, posts, or messages violate any of Kickstarter's terms.

I want everyone to feel free to pursue information, but please do so responsibly and safely.

Finances, part I: Where the Money Went

Ok, so I have a bunch of big grains of salt and caveats here.  First, THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS 100% ACCURATE ACCOUNTING DATA.  I make no warranties or promises about this data, and it should not be considered as any legal um, not advice, but, information, I guess?  I'm just saying that this breakdown was done by me, using what access I have to the bank account, BackerKit, Kickstarter, Stripe, PayPal, and Shopify.  I could very well have added instead of subtracted somewhere, or mis-categorized something, or who knows what.  In other words, I'm using this data to provide a very basic view of how I think the money was spent.  Now, I used very accurate sources, and I think I did a pretty good job, but what I'm getting at is, this data is not intended to be used for any legal purpose.  I would not for example, say that I was accurate enough to tell an accountant that this could be used to base our taxes on.

Now, all that said, for the purposes of being transparent with you the backers, I think this breakdown can give you a decent sense of how we (I) prioritized the campaign funds.  Also, everything is rounded off to the nearest $10 for convenience.  There are some more asterisks below...

(God I probably should have consulted a lawyer first).  Here you go!  I've intentionally grouped similar line items together so you can see where the money went, without seeing exactly how much was spent on say, logistics vs biz ops, or marketing and R&D.  The two exceptions here are my salary (never publicly  posted that before...) and the total amount that made it to China.

Two words of warning: first, the numbers won't add up; this is for two reasons: one, these came from several sources, and if you've ever tried to get the numbers match up between two bank accounts and several different points of income, it's tough even when you have more than just a few hours, and two, I tried to grab only dollar values that were paid for with funds from Kickstarter or BackerKit.

As I've mentioned previously, 4 months before the campaign even started, Michael was paying to fly himself and me to and from China; he paid for my hotel and meals while I was in China, and he fronted the materials, labor, and all other costs to work full time on developing 4 different full size and 1 fun size table for me to demo and take pictures of, not to mention the marketing.  Those 4 months alone he probably spent close to $25,000 with no guarantee of success.  It was this dedication and willingness to spend his own time, money, and resources on this project that really made me feel like this campaign would succeed.  I really hope he's ok.

Finances, part II: The Lockdown.  No, The other Lockdown

Many people were part of the BackerKit Pledge Manager locks.  I am here to provide a clear picture of how many pledge manager accounts were locked, how many were charged, and when.  First, let me show you the data:

How many people had their PMs locked?

Ok, so let's break this down.  First of all, approx. 336 people were locked and charged.  I say approximately because if you are familiar with pivot tables in Excel, you that sometimes they double count individuals, and the export data I used was very long and included many dupes that I attempted to remove.  I did manually review and found a total of 338 by another method, but this I think is close enough for the goal of providing transparency in this update.  Also included in this number may be some false positives like folks who requested a refund, or people who got locked but not charged.

How much more money was collected after that?

In total, $167, 461 was charged or attempted to charge in BackerKit.  This is a combination of people who ordered add-ons extra tables or chairs, and also people paying for shipping.  It's really quite a mixture.  The first big charge in April of 2019 was intentional.  This was meant to be the locking and charging of Pledge Managers that were going to be part of the first wave. back when I believed we would have tables ready to ship in May/June.  As you may recall, I flew to China around that time, and visited the 3rd of the four factories I would end up visiting.  It was at this time that table components were starting to be produced, and Michael showed me the piles of beech wood, bins of LED strips, Bluetooth transmitters, and DC converters for all 700 tables.  Many of the resources were purchased in bulk early on, and this led to at least one costly mistake that I know of: Michael ordered large quantity of bamboo, because he tested it for the table leaves and it worked great, but over time it ended up changing in texture and look until we agreed it couldn't be used.  A deposit of several thousand dollars was lost returning the remaining bamboo.  Anyways.

How many people had access to the Pledge Manager?

After this trip, we realized that setting an artificial deadline (meaning one that wasn't defined by actual tables being produced end-to-end) was counterproductive.  Shortly after, Michael messaged me and said negotiations with the third factory had broken down, and he was again searching for a new partner.

I am the only person in the US who has access to the backerkit.  During this time, I would spend part of my time learning the backerkit reporting system.  Between April and October, I locked a handful of pledge managers, usually notifying or sending an email through the system.  But the reporting system uses Segments.  If you aren't familiar with Segments in database reporting, basically you create a certain rule like "only show me backers who have a valid address" or "only show backers whose credit cards were declined."  You then mix and match these segments to show the list of backers who meet the criteria you are looking for.  Backerkit is then designed to let you take actions on those backers, like send them an email, or say, lock their pledge.  And this is where I made my mistake.  I had intended to lock 100 backers who met several criteria, including living in the Seattle Area, requesting local pickup, had valid credit cards, and one or two other things, I can't remember.  But I failed to properly segment people, or maybe I used the wrong segment report.  I can't recall, but it doesn't matter.  After I let the locking action run, the whole process takes a while, up to a couple of weeks I believe as accounts are locked and charges are attempted.  I realized I had unintentionally locked and charged around 30-50 people who should not have been charged.  I regret not going in and immediately undoing those locks.  At the time I decided I would address locks as backers messaged me and requested it, as that seemed a faster solution, and I was already full steam ahead on driving to LA to scout warehouse and 3PL solutions to use Los Angeles as a pickup location.

All in all, around 35% of backers had their pledge managers closed.  I'm sure this info will be helpful to many, but some will have more questions.  Please post them in the comments, and I'll continue to update y'all.

Finances, part III: Refunds

Someone asked about Refunds and Disputes.  I checked with Stripe, the company that BackerKit and Kickstarter uses, and I double checked the rules, so I'll share that info with you in a second.  First just let me say that as much as it pains me to say, I can no longer offer refunds for any aspect of the 2nd Breakfast campaign.  I know this is especially painful for some of you who got locked into large orders.  There came a point where despite wanting to offer refunds to anyone who asked, my available funds were getting low, and Michael was wrapping up negotiations and said the money we had was tied up in resources.  I know that has lead us to a dreary spot, but for now, it's not even a choice; there's literally no money left in the account that I can access.  Here is the sad truth:

The overdrawn account is my "expense" debit acct.  The other one is a locked business savings account.  What this means is that if you try to request a refund with your bank or cc company, ,they'll file a dispute.  Likely the dispute will be rejected by KS due to the nature of pledges as not being purchases.  If a dispute does go through, Stripe might try to overdraw the account, but more likely it will sit in a pending status forever.  I don't tell you this so you won't try to get a refund;  I would love to give everyone some material good from this campaign.  But I just want you all to understand that I really am trying to demonstrate the utmost transparency.

Ok, there are a few more questions on my list, but I think I've hit my limit for sad news today.  There will be another update tomorrow, and I PROMISE it will have some good or at least interesting news!  Talk to you then!

~Nathan

June Update, Part 2
almost 4 years ago – Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 10:58:53 PM

Hello again everyone~

Obviously yesterday's update did not provide that answers we were all hoping for.  But it did represent a transition; particularly my transition from being a partner with Michael, to being a new entity focused on doing right by a project that I believed in but seems to have ultimately failed.

To that end, I have a few things to say, and then I have another Q&A listed below that will attempt to answer some of the questions from the comments and provide clarity on details of the update that some folks are requesting.  So here we go.

RE: China, Michael, and Me

I have three very important things to say here.

First: NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE CALLING OUT "CHINESE BUSINESS PARTNERS" "CHINESE SCAM" OR CHINESE ANYTHING. They are just "business partners," "scam," or whatever they are.  Everyone here is free to express their opinions about me, this campaign, and Michael, but I will NOT tolerate racist or prejudiced remarks.  In this instance, if you aren't sure, just ask yourself, "Is the adjective "chinese" important for understanding what I am saying about this subject?  If not, don't include it.  If so, ask yourself very carefully why you believe it needs to be there.  Also, don't target your fellow backers.  All other opinions, anger, etc. against me or the campaign are fine.

Second: My intent here was NOT to throw Michael under the bus.  Yes, his silence is very jarring to everyone, and certainly concerning.  But Michael is not some random business guy I didn't know, and I firmly believe that he never intended for things to go this way.  Michael is a family friend; I've met his mother, his sisters, his wife and kids.  I've stayed at his home in Beijing, and with his family in Datong.  They are all wonderful people.  Beyond that, I've met Michael's other business partners currrent and former.  He has done customer woodwork for offices and other buildings, and before that he was an aeronautical engineer.  He has other investments, startups in science and technology, whose offices I've been to.  Before the campaign launched in October of 2018, Michael fronted all of the expenses; designing and building multiple prototypes, flying himself and me to and From China, and the costs of setting up Warmwood as a buisness through our lawyer.  I had only enough money to cover my personal expenses for four months, which I did to build Wooded Realms as a Brand, to visit China and work on prototypes, and to dedicate my time 24/7 to run the campaign.  I cashed in favors with friends, family, professional and casual acquaintances to get through that time and make the campaign a success.  And through it all Michael covered the expenses; ad sales, printing banners and signs, building sample tables, and storing everything locally.  If you want my thoughts on why Michael is doing what he's doing, I think that outside factors (COVID, China's economy shifting suddenly, maybe debts he can't collect) have caused Michael to lose his fortune, and he  doesn't know how to face me or you.  But even that is just speculation.

When backers question Michael's moral or ethical quality, or my integrity or intelligence, I understand.  You don't have those connections; you weren't there to see our business relationship or personal growth as friends.  And if you think that Michael scammed me, and I was too dumb to realize, or if you think that I was hiding or protecting Michael's bad actions, all I can tell you is that I knew him, and many people know me, and I can say that Michael wouldn't have let things get here unless there were some serious issues that forced us here, and I wouldn't have let things go this far if I didn't have faith in him or myself.  And I think if you ask people who know me or know Michael, they'll tell you the same thing.  But also, you put money and faith in me, and I haven't been able to earn that faith yet, so I very much understand your anger, and I understand if you want to think Michael's a scammer, and I'm an idiot.

Finally: Me.  One of the big factors that sort of surprised me was how shocked everyone was that I have no stake in Warmwood LLC.  I'm not saying I wasn't expecting some stake eventually, just that when we started, everything was paid for and produced by Michael.  I just had the idea, design suggestions, and belief that a market existed.  Once the campaign ended, on one of my trips to China, Michael told me he would give me 30% of the company if we hit $1,000,000 in sales within a year's time.  At the time this felt like a very achievable goal.  We had successfully completed the campaign, people were excited, and kept wanting to see more.  I still think the idea, design of the table, and maybe even the brand can be a very successful business (more on that in a bit), so I was happy to hear this, and Michael seemed sincere.

Obviously this didn't happen.  But in my mind, it didn't matter.  Michael had been putting in serious effort, and the table design was improving rapidly.  At this time, we had announced that the shipment would be delayed from spring to fall, and based on the work being done, it seemed reasonable, and ultimately better.  Perhaps if we had just produced the tables based on that design, we would have delivered something to our backers.  I remember at the time thinking that the improvements were so great that it would be unfair to backers to receive inferior tables.  By then, Michael had purchased the resources, and we were beginning to look at finding a larger factory to produce the tables.  We were also beginning to prototype samples of our next products, which, since it seems unlikely to matter now, included

• an entertainment center specifically designed to hold multiple modern and retro consoles
• a coffee table with adjustable well depth and multiple exchangeable accessories (including a cooler module for ice and drinks, a monitor module with swinging monitor and emulation console for gaming, and a brick module for storing and playing with legos, and a gaming module with USB charging cradles for controllers, keyboard, and headsets
• a board game cabinet designed to hold board game and RPG accessories (think KALLAX but with dedicated space for dice towers, game mats, etc)
• a 2'x4' table that would unfold into a 4'x8' gaming table called "the Mona" (inspired by this amazing Roentgen piece):

 Anyways, my point is that I always felt ownership over the ideas, designs, branding and identity of Wooded Realms, and Michael owned the manufacturing.  Michael continued to cover my expenses so I didn't have to work elsewhere, and I had no reason to believe that he would not reward me with some stake in the company.  Remember I had met his family and business partners at this point, and they contributed to the confidence I felt.  I feel confident that if I am forced to walk away from Wooded Realms and the products I created there, I will be ok, but I don't know if I would continue to chase my dream.

Next Steps, and a Word of Caution

Ok.  Let's get into some practical discussion of what's happening now and what could happen next.  Right now, I am focused on retrieving Wooded Realms IP, including the designs of 2nd Breakfast, and the ideas I mentioned above, from Michael's Warmwood LLC company.  Now, normally companies don't make this kind of thing public because consumers can interfere, or act in ways that might harm the deal.  Sometimes this is good (eg stopping a monopoly), sometimes this is bad (eg tying a beloved Intellectual Property up in legal limbo).  I've seen a few conspiracy theories, and some suggestions on actions you can take as backers.  I'll answer in more detail about what my thoughts are on these issues in the Q&A, but for now, here's what I'd like you to know:

• Warmwood LLC is fully owned by Michael.  I have been more or less a contract employee.  Again this is on paper; we operated as if I would have a stake one day.  Here in the US, I can see Warmwood's financials but I do NOT have the ability to manipulate all of them.  I had a discretionary debit card which I used to cover travel, printing promotional materials, attending trade shows, etc; sort of like a P card or expense budget.  That account never contained the full amount of the campaign funds, and currently it holds less than $1,000, which I don't have the authority to access.
• What this means is that Warmwood LLC in the US is comprised of 4 things: ~$1,000, the IP for 2nd Breakfast, the brand Wooded Realms, and around 100 tables + XX chairs in China
• If Warmwood LLC were to be forcefully shut down, and its assets distributed, that's all that would be available
• Right now, I am attempting to convince Michael to give me the IP, the Brand, and the assets so that I can continue my personal efforts to fulfill the Kickstarter's obligations.
• If Warmwood LLC were to be forcefully shut down, then the IP, Brand, and assets are essentially lost

Next, let me give you some information about the state of Washington's consumer protection and Attorney General's office (and I encourage you to look this info up on your own state's website, because honestly, why trust me?).  In Washington State, the AG's Consumer Protection department does offer a complaint form for disputes between customers and businesses.  I encourage you to look up what this form does for consumers, and what the process looks like.  Even though I am not paid by Warmwood, I am still in good faith acting in the best interests of the campaign, and so I will continue to respond to those complaints.  Of course, I would prefer we keep all of our communications here, where all backers can see your questions and my responses.  Plus, as I mentioned above, I want to figure out a way to fulfill backers but I need at the very least the 2nd Breakfast IP and continued access to Kickstarter and BackerKit.  If I'm forced to stop working on this, I don't know who would take up the mantle.

If Warmwood continues to exist, and I haven't been able to establish contact with Michael or properly discuss this with him via WeChat, I plan to fly to China once it seems safe enough to do so.  That means waiting until flights are re-established between the US and China, and China's 14 day self-quarantine for foreign visitors is no longer in effect (It's too expensive for me to sit in a hotel room for 14 days, then spend X more days negotiating).

Please, let me continue to try to work with Michael; whatever he is going through right now, whatever the reason he isn't engaging in the work, I believe he still wants to do right by the backers.  I think the photos, videos, and updates I've posted as part of this campaign all demonstrate that he did act in the best interest of us all, both you as backers, and me as a friend and business partner.  And regardless of what he's dealing with right now, I still want to be here, and I want to find the best possible conclusion for everyone.  And yes, I still believe that can include a table at your doorstep.

For now, I'll continue to post updates here when I hear more, I will try to remember to post updates even when I don't hear more.  I'll continue updating as long as I think there's a chance I can make something good happen for you all.

~N

More Q's, More A's

Ok, here are some long answers to questions, or just general topics that have come up in the comments based on yesterday's update.

Warmwood is not owned by Nathan, or stated as such.  Why wasn't the company set up with some level of shared ownership?

As I covered in the update above, it was planned for me to take a stake in the company after we met certain revenue goals.  When the campaign started, as a US citizen, I had to put my name on a lot of things like the Kickstarter, Backerkit, etc.  In addition my job was to understand and set up these things in the US since Michael's English is not quite fluent.

Why was the business administratively dissolved today (06/03)? Why is Nathan's name is on the filing as agent?

The administrative dissolution was literally just a coincidence.  I didn't renew because at the time I hadn't heard from Michael, then when the plan changed to try and buy the company, I honestly just forgot to renew.  Once it was pointed out in the comments, I went in, covered the $200 filing fee and reinstated the company.  The site hasn't updated yet, but when It's back up, you can check it out by going here: https://ccfs.sos.wa.gov/ and doing a Corporation Search for "WARMWOOD LLC."  As previously mentioned, I am the registered agent because Michael lives in China and his English is not great.

Is Michael a scammer?  Is Nathan a scammer or naive?

I believe in the strongest terms that Michael did not intentionally scam me or you.  I've posted more about it above, but I feel the past two years demonstrate our clear efforts to build this table.  For us, this table was supposed to be our jumping off point into a long lasting business of cool nerd furniture and products.  Maybe that belief was naive of me, but I did use my knowledge, experience, and passion to do my best to complete this Kickstarter.  Whether that makes me naive or an idiot I guess is up to the beholder.

Why were funds sent to China?  What happened to the funds?

I did not have control over the bank account, only a small part of it.  Essentially the bulk of the funds were wired to China, and I had some money to do my part here.  Occassionally Michael would add more funds if I asked for them, and I can track what happened to that money.  But the majority of it (naturally) went to procure resources, pay workers, and generally build the tables.  Right now I do not have visibility into how much of that money is left, but I think it's wise to assume that it is all spent.

Are the tables and parts we saw in China fake or staged?

Those tables are 100% real!  They still look amazing and are great tables.  I visited the factory, saw every aspect of the process, and believe me, our tables are so uniquely designed, that none of the parts could be reused for another product.  In one of my previous updates, I posted a video of a table being assembled right from the box.  It's all there.  One of my first goals if I can convince Michael to let me is to get those tables over here.  They are a beautiful example of the work we did, the dream we had, and they are the best chance of me finding funding to finish what I started.

There's some confusion around these three seemingly conflicting statements:  "I have always remained confident in our finances, particularly in how backer funds have been used." Then: "I don't know how much of the backer funding is left." Then: "Financially we do not seem to be doing well."

I'll take them one at a time.  First: This is a statement about how confident I was that we were spending appropriately (meaning we weren't using funds for non-WR things, and spending in good faith).  Second: This is just a true statement about my knowledge of the backer funds.  In the context of the narrative, I was still confident that if the pool of money "backer funding" was empty, there was still the pool of money "Michael," who had already spent a good amount of his own money getting to this point, and who had reassured me several times that he would continue to invest money to make the project a success.  Third: This represents my transition over the last few weeks.  I had always been confident, until I started losing contact with Michael, then getting reports from the factory that he hadn't paid the final part of the contract.  Add to that the fact that the US bank account I can access shows less than a thousand dollars in it, and I have been working without getting paid since pretty much the new year, well we do not seem to be doing well.

Does this mean refunds are not happening?

Well, the short answer is refunds are not happening.  At least as far as what I can access, there is no more money in the bank account to refund with.  Speaking pragmatically, it's Board Game Tables or Bust.  That might change if Michael has some new information that resets the equation.  I know that at least some of you had already written off this project and purchased a table elsewhere, so another table isn't ideal.  Looking at the situation right now, it is more viable and achievable to find the funds to produce the tables than it is to attempt to refund everyone.  So, for me, if I can gain control of the necessary parts of Warmwood, that's what I will do.  After that, when things stabilize, I'll still have the list of refund requests, and then if the business demonstrates viability, we can look at beginning that process.  But that frankly feels like it's a long way away right now.

Should I file a report with my or your AG?

This is entirely up to you.  I AM NOT A LAWYER!  I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THIS IS GOOD OR BAD OR ANYTHING.  I can tell you what was told to me by my state AG when I called them (I just got an AG Consumer Protection complaint in the mail!). Filing with the state Attorney General is a personal choice; it does NOT mean that Warmwood will become "under investigation." The Washington State Attorney General's Consumer Protection office will use their resources to facilitate public communication between you and Wooded Realms.  Since I am here, you can very publicly complain about me right here right now.  But if you are trying to use the AG's complaint process to trigger some kind of legal action, it won't.  Filing a complaint does put Warmwood on their radar, however, and they may look into whether Warmwood have acted "in good faith," which I believe is the case.  I will say that If I personally get involved in any legal actions, it will basically ruin me; I'm not rich, and even if nothing came of it the legal fees would drown me.  So please consider carefully; my preference is to work here to come to the best possible conclusion.

How far along are negotiations? When did you last talk to Michael? What is the contingency plan?

Well the negotiations basically are the contingency plan.  While I'm acting practically and operating on the facts before me, I am still holding out hope that we will be able to turn around what's happening and deliver your tables.  As far as where we are in negotiations, I honestly have no idea what I can or should say here.  If they turn out to be unfriendly, there's nothing stopping a lawyer from coming in here and reading exactly what my positions are.  I will say that I am coming at it from a position of assuming that there are no funds left, and that Michael is, for whatever reason, unwilling or unable to continue working on this project.  via WeChat, I have been in communication with Dongsifu (Michael's employee) and the factory fairly regularly.  Our last direct communication with Michael was in April.  Since then I have continued to give him updates and tried to get him to explain what is happening.  Our contingency plan for this is simply to fly to China when we are able, and knock on his front door, or perhaps the doors of his family.  My hope is that once Michael confronts his problems, he will understand he has an opportunity to move forward at least with this part of his life, and he will be willing to quickly negotiate.

I suppose the absolute worst case scenario is that Warmwood gets sued, the thousand dollars gets split 700 ways, the IP and Brand go into the aether, I lose the last of my credibility and dream, and go back to work minus some friends who trusted me. 

Why don't you just abandon this project? Everyone has written it off, you can too. Why don't you just start over?

If I find a way to continue to build board game tables and other nerd furniture and products, I want to to do it under the Wooded Realms brand.  Obviously that will carry a large burden in the form of anyone who looks up the name and finds this Kickstarter.  But I don't believe it's a good thing to just walk away and "start fresh."  That would be unfair to everyone here, and it would unfair to everyone who comes after.  I believe that I have acted in good faith and did my best, and I have learned a lot, and gained a lot of experience.  It's important to me that anyone who works with me in the future knows that I did not try to hide from this, and they can look back and judge for themselves whether I am worthy of their business.

How about accessory orders?

Unfortunately, we don't have the money to fulfill accessory orders.  They were always considered to be the layup part of the project, so I decided we should wait until the tables were done before we contract to have accessories built, or to build our own.  So this is unlikely, but in terms of best possible conclusions, fulfilling these may be a good start.  We'll have to see.

June Update, Part 1
almost 4 years ago – Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 08:32:59 PM

Hello Backers!

(For a variety of reasons it didn't feel right to jump in with a jovial greeting)

I'm here today to answer the questions that James was very kind to compile, and to give you all an update on what is happening with the Wooded Realms tables.  Let's start with the update on the tables.

What's Going on With the Tables?

Well, let me walk you through to where we are today.  In our last update, I was connecting with Michael, though he and his family were still not home in Beijing.  He was waiting for the various rules in place to change so he could go home, and in the meantime, was speaking with other business partners and investors.  Around the time I started talking directly with the factory, Michael was handling his business and family matters.

Throughout January, I have kept in touch with Michael, and we discussed the ongoing plan for finalizing the contract with the factory.  However, around late February / Early March, I found that Michael was becoming harder to reach.  He was online less, and would only respond every other day or so.  Now, in the time that I've known MIchael, he has always been a man who had his affairs in order.  Before the Kickstarter launched in 2018, Michael flew to the US, and showed me the very first prototype of what would become 2nd Breakfast.  Not long after, he flew me to China, and we spent several weeks with his workers making improvements, changes, and getting to know each other as business partners.  Michael also discussed some of his finances here, which I won't divulge for privacy reasons, but I felt comfortable that we could make Wooded Realms a success in large part because of Michael's prior successes.

And that's how it was from July of 2018 through all of 2019.  There is one point of order here, which is that Warmwood LLC, the business entity of which Wooded Realms is a DBA,  And Warmwood is owned by Michael, both here in the US, and in China.  But again, as Michael was the owner and financier, It seemed reasonable.

Now, to that end, I know that some of you have asked about our finances are stable, and whether Wooded Realms is going to run out of money.  And I have always remained confident in our finances, particularly in how backer funds have been used.  Every time I have visited Michael, he's been able to show raw materials, resources, and progress, not to mention regular improvements to the design and quality of the tables and chairs.  I've said before that every change we made was a positive change for the product, and that was always true.  Michael has always been up front about the fact that even if backer resources ran low, he would be able to continue production thanks to his resources and team.

I may not own any part of the company, but I believe in it, and I convinced all of our backers, including some close friends, that this project will be successful.  With the massive upheaval caused by the coronavirus, and Michael's aloofness, I'm left wondering what could be causing these disconnects.  Michael has dropped off the radar before, only to come back with some great news or advance in production. I think that through the pictures and videos of the various factories, samples, pictures and videos, you will agree with me that both Michael and I have worked hard to make 2nd Breakfast a great table, and I believe that your funds have so far gotten us where we are today.  However, I am now at a point where my own reputation is at stake.  So I'm left asking myself, how can I make things move forward, when we seem to be blocked and left adrift without new information?

And so we come to the crux of this update.  For the last 60 days or so, I have not been responding to messages.  The reason is that I don't want to commit to anything until I know that it is something I can control.  Last December was all about accessing the information, and now I feel I need to access the levers as well.

So, I am currently attempting to negotiate with Michael to take full ownership of Warmwood LLC and Wooded Realms.  If I do this, I will be assuming all of the risk and responsibility of completing this Kickstarter campaign and keeping my promise to all of our backers.  As of right now, I don't know if Michael will agree.  I don't know how much of the backer funding is left.  I do know that I have been working without a salary since the new year began, and I am thankfully lucky enough to be in a position to continue focusing on Wooded Realms full time without a paycheck, just like so many others right now.  I'm also working on assuming the needed debt if indeed the remaining tables and shipping will need to come out of my pocket.  I hope it won't come to that, but right now some big questions are in the air, and I want to prepare for the worst.

So there you have it.  All the cards are on the table (no pun intended), and the pressure of the last couple of months is, if not gone, at least no longer a burden I bear in silence.  For the time being, I will continue to keep the Kickstarter and Backerkit in a kind of stasis, but I will be sure to continue to update you all as I learn more about the situation with Michael and how I plan to continue fulfilling my o̶b̶l̶i̶g̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶  destiny ;)

Feel free to keep asking questions, both about the table itself, accessories, and shipping.  I am still working on those things though many questions may not be answered until I can safely fly to China.  Also!  Not every piece of news is a downer. During my last trip, I spent a lot of time forging new relationships, and finding new potential partners, including members of the current factory, and people I've been working with since the beginning (like Dongsifu!).  Many of those people will still continue to be involved regardless of how everything else shakes out.  So please, if you can, stay positive and let's finish this ride together!

The Big List of Qs and As

Thanks again to James, who compiled this monster list for me and continued to reach out over the last couple of months, while I was busy trying to work out the next step.  And of course Mike, who endured and rose above and beyond.  I've also had a few backers ping me on my personal twitter, @anotherfluke and you are all welcome to say hi, bye, tell me I suck or rock, or share in my love of pinball.  Just be aware that I do share my personal opinions there, and those opinions do not reflect the opinion of Wooded Realms.

Without further ado, your Qs and my As! (please excuse odd formatting, Excel and Kickstarter's WYSIWYG are horrible dance partners)

~N

• 2/1/2020 Is the list of the first 100 available yet? If not, when will it be? The first 100 list is being built based on what has been produced at the factory, and what will be part   of the first shipment. I am waiting   for the manifest of that shipment to provide exact details in order to avoid over-promising.
• 2/1/2020 What was the final thickness of the playfield? The current playfield thickness is 4mm. It's possible this will change, but unlikely unless we find a   different supplier mid-production. It's also possible/probable that as we begin selling tables, we can offer a thicker or thinner playfield, price adjusted based on production   cost.   
• 2/1/2020 Will the dicetrays have the same material as the playfield? The colors will match, but I   don't know if the factory was able to source the exact same material. I will try to find out.   
• 2/2/2020 Will the   playmats be stitched on the sides? Yes   there will be stitching on the sides.   
• 2/3/2020 Do you happen to have the   pictures / video that you were hoping to upload in your January update (you   eluded to something but only had Starbucks wifi that day). I will look for them. I think the best video I had was posted in   the compiled video that I finished at Starbucks, but I can upload more   photos, including ones that may be redundant or not "perfect" shots  
•  2/3/2020 If items   are being added to the Pledge Manager, are those of us that had ours locked   prematurely, going to be able to update ours? Yes, you   will be able to make updates if your pledge was locked.   
• 2/4/2020 How will the packaging/Shipping   be broken down on large orders I'm a little unclear on this   question, but essentially all products are boxed separately, so they can ship   separately. The plan is to include all   ordered items in one shipment unless we get a delay on a specific item.   
• 2/4/2020 Did   folks who preorder not pay yet? Do they pay once you send the tables? I   believe pre-orders are charged at the point of pre-order. Pre-orders are currently turned off until   we have re-opened communication in China.   
• 2/4/2020 Are you getting money you need   for refunds from the preorders your shipping ahead of backers? No, funds that have been   collected got wired to China, excepting some amount that is used to pay for   things like Storage and webhosting costs here.   
• 2/4/2020 How much   assembly will the chairs need? The   chairs are actually fairly simple to assemble, not much more than your   average Ikea chair I'd say.   
• 2/5/2020 What is a best-case, worst-case   scenario for me receiving my table? (mid west backer) Best case right now is to have   your table delivered this year. Worst   case scenario is something happens that leads to Wooded Realms being unable   to produce tables; I don't have a specific reason why that would happen, but   it is always a possibility until we have everything produced and boxed in the   US.   
• 2/5/2020 When   will we know if Chicago is a pickup location? I would   say it is unlikely at this point, but that could change, particularly if our   delivery options change significantly between now and delivery time.   
• 2/5/2020 Are final pictures available   with all parts included? Due to the issues with   re-opening communication, I don't have any updated pictures, which means the   last of the materials that have been procured are not available as photos   right now.   
• 2/5/2020 When is   the pledge manager going to close and when will I be charged If you   haven't been charged now, you won't be charged until I have confidence your   funds will be handled accurately in China.   
• 2/7/2020 Answers to PMs were promised in   the early Feb 2020 update. What is the status? PM responses have been held   while I focus on re-opening the lines of communication in China. In particular, several backers have   requested refunds, and those who have are being added to a list.   
• 2/7/2020 What's   the timeline for delivery and fulfillment from first table to last? Production   runs around 75-100 tables per month when running at full capacity.   
• 2/12/2020 regarding the fitted, clear   acrylic sheet that comes with the table, is there going to be a way to easily   get that out of the vault? The plan right now is to include   a small suction device. You push down   on it, pull a level and it grabs the acrylic. This too might change, but so far it has been the simplest, most   effective solution.   
• 2/13/2020 Can you   provide more information the status of the message backlog? How many are   there, how long should clearing it take? Why is it taking so long? PM   responses have been held while I focus on re-opening the lines of   communication in China. In particular,   several backers have requested refunds, and those who have are being added to   a list.   
• 2/13/2020 Have the assembly instructions   (and other paperwork) for the tables been put together and if so, would it be   possible for us to see them? Assembly instructions will be   provided online when the tables ship, unless the factory has their own   version they can provide   
• 2/13/2020 When   will upgrade (specifically upgrade to XL) requests be handled Upgrade   requests can be handled in the BackerKit, but I have stopped accepting   additional payments   
• 2/13/2020 What is the absolute worst case   timeline for all Kickstarter tables to be delivered: 2021, 2022, 2023? 2021 I think is the longest   timeline for tables. Now that the   production is finalized, our focus now is getting the factory to continue   production and finishing our contracts   
• 2/13/2020 We were   told by Mike: backers who were already charged will be priority delivery in   the first couple shipments regardless of location. Has that changed? No that   hasn't changed. The first shipment of   100 will be local as I've posted previously, but once deliveries start with   the second shipment, priority will be part of that.   
• 2/13/2020 Can the FAQ be updated with   these and other questions and their answers? Yes I'll try to add them;   there's quite a lot!   
• 2/14/2020 Since   the playfield is now just a roll-up neoprene mat, will we be able to buy   additional mats? When could those be added to the pledge manager? Yes,   additional mats will be available; I can't say when, but additional mats are   high on the list of items to make available separately.   
• 2/14/2020 Can someone demo a spill on the   table so that we can see how well the spill guard works? I would like to do that, but   right now we don't have a way to do the demonstration or capture the   video. I do plan on going back to   China once the restrictions ligthen up. If I left right now, China would consider me high risk as an American   ha :) So I would have to self   quarantine for 14 days once I arrive. Too expensive!   
• 2/18/2020 Are   updates still intended on the 1st and 15th of each month? Why are these   frequently missed? What steps are being taken to ensure strong communication   going forward? Yes,   updates are still planned for the first and the 15th.   
• 2/26/2020 10-12 week timeline until what?   Until the first shipment arrives? Until the first shipment is loaded on a   boat? Until production begins on the next wave? Our goal right now is to re-open   the lines of communication in China. Once we've fixed that issue, we can begin the process of having tables   shipped.   
• 2/26/2020 Personally   I would like to know the name of the factory. It would be nice if we could   look up updates on when it might be running again. I know   the Chinese name of the factory. I   will ask if they have an English site available outside of China, though the   tables themselves are both "white label" and a sort of side project   for the factory, so I don't think there will be any mention of the tables on   their official website.   
• 3/12/2020 Have any XL tables been   produced? Will any be in the first shipment? Yes, the first 100 tables are a   mixture of Standard and XL tables based on the quantities ordered.   
• 3/16/2020 Can you   tell us how many of the first 100 will be KS vs pre order? The   first 100 is planned to be all KS.   
• 3/26/2020 At the end of the two weeks   you'll be shipping the first 100 then? Is that what this means? Can you tell   us specifically what needs to be done to get them ready to ship? Is the   factory outfitted to package them? What's the typical shipping time from China   to Washington? The factory is currently   equipped to handle shipping furniture to the US. Their other products are furniture and   other household items like cabinets and countertops, and they regularly ship   to the US. Typical shipping time is   4-6 weeks door-to-door (so to speak)   
• 3/26/2020 what has   to happen in order for your team to start building the next round of tables? The next   round is contingent on a new contract being drafted and signed based on the   final changes I oversaw back in January, as well as the safe and successful   delivery the first shipment of tables to Seattle.   
• 3/26/2020 "This is preventing the   final touches needed before we can begin shipping."  What does this mean specifically? Are all of the table components made and   they need to install some things (like the LEDs for instance)? Essentially yes. Some of the very last components we sourced   were the US standard fuses, power plugs, and other minor electrical   components. The larger components,   like the LEDs, the Bluetooth controller, USB ports, etc, have been sourced   for a long time.   
• 3/28/2020 Why do   we have to wait for the first 100 to get here before continuing production? Quality   Assurance is the primary reason; if the tables arrive safely but suffer from   QA issues that weren't identified with the samples I saw at the factory, then   those issues need to be addressed. Once a table arrives in the US, there is no more viable option to fix   a defect short of paying to completely replace the defective component. (This   is different from being able to replace parts that break; we will have   replacement parts for any part of the table that is user serviceable. I'm referring mainly here to factory   mistakes eg: a leg that wasn't fully painted, or maybe screws provided that   don't match the table's needs).   
• 4/5/2020 how are things looking   financially? Straight up, yes/no, is the project out of money and are we on   track to finish fulfilling everyone’s order to the level laid out in the   initial project description? If yes, how much of a buffer is there before   anything needs to change? If no, what steps are currently being taken to   address this to deliver the closest possible project? Financially we do not seem to be   doing well. The issues with re-opening   communication in China is frankly giving me a lot of concern, as noted in the   update. As I have mentioned in   previous posts, a lot of the effort I've put in on this side of the Pacific   has been in minimizing our monthly costs and not taking funds away from the   production costs. I personally have   not been paid in months, and it's through the grace of my wife's stable job   that I have been able to continue to stay focused on pushing this project   forward.   
• 4/11/2020 Have you   selected pick up locations throughout the US yet? As an east coast backer I   currently have my pledge set to delivery, but honestly I'd rather pick it up   if it's anywhere near me. The plan   is to have one east coast location for pickup. Unfortunately I can't be more specific   right now.   
• 4/28/2020 How often does Nathan   communicate with Michael? See the latest update for the   current answer   
• 4/28/2020 Where   are we at in regards to the factory being re-opened for some weeks now? I have   been in communication with our factory contact as well as Dongsifu; they are   still under certain restrictions, but seem to be up and running again.   
• 5/2/2020 Nathan, do you have a project   plan for this kickstarter? It'd be nice to know you have a detailed agenda of   things you need to do to move forward. Yes I do have a project   plan. Right now the plan is paused due   to the communication issue, so a lot of what I have worked on, logistics,   warehousing, and bringing 2nd Breakfast tables into retail locations, as well   as the next planned products for both 2nd Breakfast and others in the Wooded Realms line.   
• 5/11/2020 Why have   answers been so hard to get? starting 2/28 you said you would answer these   questions soon. Again in your March and April updates you promised answers   within a week each, yet it's 5/11 and no answers. Why? What steps are being   taken to overcome those problems? See the   latest update for the current answer   
• 5/19/2020 Can you tell us where things   stand with the accessories from C4 labs? I have not been communicating   with C4 labs in the last few months. I   last spoke with the rep around the new year via email, but we didn't end up   discussing any production plan primarily because I have been focused on   keeping our commitment to deliver tables, but also because the last time I   visited C4 in Tacoma (which would have been last Summer), they demonstrated   an ability to produce and package their products for shipping quite   efficiently. They are and always have   been very accessible and positive about their ability to deliver, so I have   felt comfortable working on the less reliable areas like table production and   communication with China.

Quick Status Update
almost 4 years ago – Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:29:13 AM

Hello Everyone~

I am popping up to give you a small update.  Since I last posted, I have been working to find and minimize any costs so as to weather the long delays caused by the virus.  As some of you may know, flights to China have been cancelled until June, which is causing some issues for Michael.  He still is not allowed to return to Beijing, and this is making communication difficult.  So until I hear from him or the factory about the status of payment processing (his company in China is responsible for making payments since there are difficulties in moving money between the US and China), I need to focus on keeping costs down here in the US.

To that end, I have been spending about half of my time consolidating our storage and office space.  Man those sample tables are HEAVY!  The other half has been taking care of family during the crisis, as I'm sure many of you are doing as well.  I hope everyone is staying safe and wearing their masks!

As for the questions, I apologize for not getting to them sooner; I do still want to go through those with yall!  I am shooting to have a video posted this week.

Finally I want to thank Mike for all of his help!  He has been invaluable, and I cannot thank him enough!  He has been gracious, professional, and most of all patient with me and you.  Thank you Mike!  And thank you all for your patience as we try to round this final corner before getting tables to everyone.

~Nathan

The Bunny Day Update
about 4 years ago – Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 01:04:57 PM

Hey there Realmfolk~

I hope everyone has been taking care and engaging in safe practices over the last month or so.  Here in Washington state we've managed to flatten the curve; hopefully we can continue that trend.  For my part, the last few weeks have been spent taking care of parents and other family members, in addition to some consolidating measures that I'll get to shortly.

How the Quarantine is affecting Wooded Realms

I want to start off by assuring everyone that our factory has fully re-opened and we still have the first 100+ tables ready to ship.  Our commitment to delivering our our Kickstarter promise is still strong.  We have a standing commitment to ship from China to Seattle, along with an open invoice that is ready to execute when the final pieces are in place.

One bit of good news is the tariff situation seems to have relaxed somewhat, with the customs fee landing somewhere between 7.5% and 9.5%, far better than the 30% we were looking at last year.  This is particularly fortunate because, from a WR business standpoint, I had hoped to be waist deep in retail agreements and additional sales by this point. Without retail samples on hand we have to wait before we can begin growing Wooded Realms as a presence (not to mention the fact that many retail businesses simply aren't able to pursue new product opportunities at the moment).  

This is a very challenging time to be a new business, and as such, I have been consolidating the operating costs for Wooded Realms.  In particular, we have been consolidating storage, and ended the lease on our office and working space.  The goal here is to continue ensuring that Wooded Realms is my top priority, and avoid seeking out loans or alternative revenue (IE getting a 2nd job) that would interfere with getting everyone's rewards out as quickly as possible.  So far we are doing alright, and if anything changes I will be sure to keep everyone in the loop; we are in this together, after all!

What is Happening in China

As for Michael, you'll be happy to hear that he is no longer confined to the area he was in when quarantine first hit.  However he and his family are still not allowed to return to Beijing.  He has been staying in Datong with his extended family, which is a few hours west of Beijing.  This has limited his ability to conduct business, including some tasks related to Wooded Realms, but as things have been improving, we are hopeful that he and his family will be able to go home soon.

Dongsifu just released from quarantine, and has returned to the factory.  Currently we are on hold for business transactions to go through, and for one last piece to be delivered.  At this time, we stand at 5 weeks for tables to arrive in US Customs, though that timeline is subject to delivery of our final component to be delivered.  The next update will come when that component is ready, ideally within the next 3 weeks.

RE: Messages and Questions

For those of you who have messaged me recently, I am going to be responding to answers this week again.  Please continue to have patience as I balance personal issues and maintenance with keeping everyone up to date.

Backer Nathan was kind enough to consolidate a list of questions into an FAQ that I will go through as part of a streaming update in the next day or so.  I will post the stream here when it is complete, so you don't need to be available for the livestream to see answers.

Please everyone stay safe, and hang in there!  I will post the next update as soon as I have more information to share!

~Nathan